I started running X once we started building ChromeVox; but I
managed to keep my environment simple by running stumpwm, a
tiling window manager. So now I have Emacs and Chrome both
running in the GUI environment, and it gives me everything Ineed.
>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Cross <tcross@xxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
Tim> One of the main reasons I use X and gnome is to have
Tim> easy access to google-chrome and chromevox, which I find
Tim> to be the best web browser with speech support out
Tim> there. The use of gnome orca makes the gnome experience
Tim> bearable and the combination of emacs, emacspeak, google
Tim> chrome and chromevox gives me a pretty comprehensive
Tim> environment. When I absolutely have to, I can fall back
Tim> to gnome-terminal, orca and gedit (or even vi in a
Tim> pinch).
Tim>
Tim> I fought against the GUI environment for years, but
Tim> realised that the web was becoming too 'rich' for a
Tim> plain text editor that doens't support javascript. While
Tim> I still use w3m and even w3 from time to time, I use
Tim> chrome and chromevox more and more. in fact, one of my
Tim> tasks for today is to adjust my browse-url config to
Tim> make switching between browsing with w3m, w3 and chrome
Tim> even easier.
Tim>
Tim> Tim
Tim>
Tim> Tim
Tim>
Tim>
Tim> On Sat, 2013-05-11 at 15:08 -0400, John Joseph Morgan
Tim> wrote:
>> I'll read this closer later, but I agree in general. I
>> really don't like GUI's. I don't have mail and a browser
>> working with emacspeak, but if ( and when ) I did, I'd
>> totally ignore gnome, orca and â Thanks, -j On May 11,
>> 2013, at 12:05 AM, Tim Cross <tcross@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > If I understand your setup and how our running emacs and
>> emacspeak, I > don't think gnome-orca is the issue.
>> >
>> > From your description, you appear to be running emacs
>> and emacspeak in > Linux consoles and not under X. If that
>> is the case, why run > gnome-orca?
>> >
>> > I run the gnome desktop. I have a key binding defined
>> which will start > emacs as a native GTK app i.e. not
>> inside a terminal or a linux console. > I have defined key
>> bindings to move between virtual workspaces, where I >
>> tend to run individual apps. For example, in one, I will
>> start a gnome > terminal window with speech support from
>> orca, in another emacs running > emacspeak using either
>> espeak (work machine) or ibmtts (home machine). > In
>> another virtual workspace, I have google-chrome running
>> with > chromevox. I move between the virtual workspaces
>> with f11 and f12. The > hardest part I had was getting the
>> apps to default to opening maximised, > so that they use
>> the whole virtual workspace and I don't get issues with >
>> the mouse moving focus to the root window etc.
>> >
>> > I rarely use the Linux console. I don't run speakup etc.
>> >
>> > For me, espeak under emacspeak is quite unstable. I turn
>> off character > echo and that helps, but find that espeak
>> either crashes or gets 'stuck' > repeating text or gets
>> way behind a lot. I've just gotten use to the > fact that
>> espeak under emacspeak is not particularly good. However,
>> > espeak under speech-dispatcher and orca is rock solid
>> for me, especially > on systems that are all 64 bit and
>> not mixed 64 and 32 bit. At work, I > will often use
>> speechd-el rather than emacspeak because it is much more >
>> stable with espeak than emacspeak is.
>> >
>> > If you are starting X and speech-dispatcher and orca and
>> then switching > to a Linux virtual console with
>> ctl+alt+f[1..6], then it is possible you > will get
>> instability as your really running two login sessions -
>> one > under X and one just under the console. I would
>> either not boot into X > and just run form the console
>> (should be able to do that by changing the > default
>> run-level) or I would continue to boot into X and run
>> emacs and > emacspeak under X rather than switching to the
>> console. It will take a > little extra work to get this
>> working well if you have absolutely no > sight, but is
>> quite possible.
>> >
>> > Tim
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, 2013-05-10 at 23:12 -0400, John Joseph Morgan
>> wrote: >> Tim, >> Sorry, I may have misunderstood your
>> message. The last thing I would recommend is to run as
>> root. >> I was reporting something that I thought might
>> lead to a better understanding of the problem. >> I
>> recently moved to ubuntu 12.10 and started to have these
>> problems. I'm pretty sure I wasn't experiencing these
>> problems with ubuntu 10.04. >> Unless I misunderstood,
>> you're having to restart espeak frequently, this doesn't
>> seem to be a very stable situation.
>> >>
>> >> Can you explain why we're seeing emacspeak and espeak
>> crashing after a couple of key strokes under a normal user
>> and not seeing any kind of crashing under root?
>> >>
>> >> I'm running ubuntu 12.10. >> emacspeak 37.0 >> emacs
>> 24.1. >> I open a new terminal login with control alt
>> f[1-6], then invoke emacspeak.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Actually, it's coming back to me now. I used to disable
>> gnome by changing the run level for the login to 3 or
>> something other than the level that brings up the guy. >>
>> emacspeak and speak was rock solid after that. >> I think
>> gnome is messing things up. >> I used to be able to do
>> this in /etc/inittab, but that doesn't seem to be there
>> anymore. >> Thanks, >> John
>> >>
>> >> On May 10, 2013, at 10:02 PM, Tim Cross
>> <tcross@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Turn it around the other way - what do you do which
>> you cannot do as a >>> normal user. Often, this just means
>> having to make a few minor config >>> changes, such as
>> adding your normal user to a specific group. For >>>
>> example, on some systems, you may need to be a member of
>> the audio group >>> i order to use the audio device.
>> >>>
>> >>> The difficulty here is that there are no set rules. It
>> all depends on >>> your distro and how they have set
>> things up. What is generally true is >>> that hardly
>> anything other than software installation and low level
>> >>> actions should require root privileges. Needing to run
>> lots of htings as >>> root generally indicates a
>> configuration problem.
>> >>>
>> >>> Tim
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Fri, 2013-05-10 at 21:35 -0400, John Joseph Morgan
>> wrote: >>>> How can I tell if a normal user has sufficient
>> privileges? >>>> I used to do something under /dev/audio,
>> but I can't remember what. >>>> Thanks, >>>> -j >>>> On
>> May 10, 2013, at 8:00 PM, Tim Cross <tcross@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I've never tried running as root with espeak or
>> emacs, so can't comment >>>>> on differences. Very bad
>> idea to run as root and should not be >>>>>
>> necessary. Similar to always having your windows login
>> running with >>>>> admin privs. You will expose yourself
>> to malware and virus issues >>>>> (anyone who tells you
>> Linux and OSX doesn't have malware or viruses is >>>>>
>> talking rubbish).
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> If you are seeing a difference between stability
>> running as root >>>>> compared to a normal user, it might
>> be that the normal user does not >>>>> have the necessary
>> permissions to do things like use the real-time >>>>>
>> scheduler which pulseaudio needs. However, I've not seen
>> linux systems >>>>> having this problem for quite a few
>> years now, so would be surprised.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I run both gnome orca and emacspeak with espeak on
>> one system, gnome >>>>> orca and emacspeak with outloud on
>> another and emacspeak with just >>>>> espeak on a 3rd
>> system. All are 64 bit. I've not noticed any significant
>> >>>>> difference between the systems with respect to
>> espeak. On all systems >>>>> using espeak, espeak is
>> extremely stable with orca and speech dispatcher >>>>> and
>> unstable with emacspeak. I also find espeak is very stable
>> using >>>>> speechd-el.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Tim >>>>> On Fri, 2013-05-10 at 19:17 -0400, John
>> Joseph Morgan wrote: >>>>>> I see this too with espeak. It
>> seems to go away when I run emacspeak with espeak under
>> the root user. >>>>>> I have gnome started with orca at
>> boot up. Is gnome and orca interfering somehow with a
>> non-root user's use of espeak? >>>>>> John
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On May 10, 2013, at 6:43 PM, Tim Cross
>> <tcross@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> You can just use the dmesg command in a terminal.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I also see the regular loss of speech with
>> espeak. I have never been >>>>>>> able to track down the
>> issue, though I tend to get distracted with other >>>>>>>
>> things when I try. I don't see this crashing with speechd
>> or with espeak >>>>>>> and speech-dispatcher generally. It
>> is limited to the emacspeak espeak >>>>>>> interface.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I find disabling character echo can help a
>> bit. Otherwise, I've just >>>>>>> gotten use to hitting
>> C-e C-s to restart espeak when it stops >>>>>>>
>> responding.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I have noticed that I don't see this issue with
>> the experiments I've >>>>>>> done that don't use tcl as
>> the interface language. So it could be that >>>>>>> the
>> problem is in the tcl layer, but this is just more
>> guesswork.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Tim
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Fri, 2013-05-10 at 11:50 +1000, Jason White
>> wrote: >>>>>>>> Christopher Chaltain <chaltain@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> I don't see this file on this system. It's a
>> Ubuntu based system.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Ubuntu keeps diverging from every other Linux
>> distribution in a growing >>>>>>>> variety of ways.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Try /var/log/syslog. I don't have an Ubuntu-based
>> system so I'm guessing here.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the emacspeak list or change
>> your address on the >>>>>>>> emacspeak list send mail to
>> "emacspeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxx" with a >>>>>>>> subject
>> of "unsubscribe" or "help".
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the emacspeak list or change
>> your address on the >>>>>>> emacspeak list send mail to
>> "emacspeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxx" with a >>>>>>> subject
>> of "unsubscribe" or "help".
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>> To unsubscribe from the emacspeak list or change your
>> address on the >>>> emacspeak list send mail to
>> "emacspeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxx" with a >>>> subject of
>> "unsubscribe" or "help".
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> To unsubscribe from the emacspeak list or change your
>> address on the >> emacspeak list send mail to
>> "emacspeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxx" with a >> subject of
>> "unsubscribe" or "help".
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from the emacspeak list or change your
>> address on the emacspeak list send mail to
>> "emacspeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxx" with a subject of
>> "unsubscribe" or "help".
>>
Tim>
Tim>
Tim> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim> To unsubscribe from the emacspeak list or change your
Tim> address on the emacspeak list send mail to
Tim> "emacspeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxx" with a subject of
Tim> "unsubscribe" or "help".
--
Best Regards,
--raman
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